1428 Elm had the chance to chat with The Djinn composer Matthew James about the challenges of writing a retro score for a film set almost entirely in an apartment.
In The Djinn, a young mute boy (Ezra Dewey) makes a wish to gain a voice and soon finds out that there is a price to pay. With the lack of dialogue, the musical score is doubly important in a film such as this.
James has worked on the WB’s series Black Lightning, as well as the crime-thriller Arkansas, and as he tells us in this interview, he has more work coming up in the near future.
1428 Elm: So, before we get started, I wanted to let you know that I did get a chance to watch The Djinn this weekend, I really loved it.
MJ: Well, thank you!
1428 Elm: I was told by your publicist that you are a bit of a horror fan yourself.
MJ: Yeah, as a kid, some of my favorite stuff was John Carpenter’s Halloween, and then, of course, A Nightmare on Elm Street, those were some of my favorite movies I used to watch, to my Mom and Dad’s disapproval.
I haven’t kept up too much with some of the modern-day, super crazy, gory stuff, but I definitely like the roots of horror. I just remember watching all that stuff with my Dad, all the Jason, Freddie Krueger, Michal Meyers stuff. It’s kind of funny when I think back, some of the first things I learned how to play on the keyboard were the Halloween themes.
1428 Elm: Yeah, I was going to ask you what you thought of that score. I’m such a horror geek that the Halloween theme is the ringtone for my phone! So, you don’t follow too much of modern horror?
MJ: No, I haven’t recently. To be honest, it might sound weird, but as far as, like, following scores or movies in general, I like to watch them as a viewer, but I find that as a musician, my ears are like a tape recorder, so I try to not…it always seems to find a way into my music if that makes sense. So I’m sitting there like, “Oh, this is really cool”, and then it’s, “Oh…that’s the theme to such-and such!”
1428 Elm: Well, you picked a good horror film with The Djinn. You talked about not following gory horror films. I like all different types of horror, but I really love the ones that build on the suspense and don’t just lay everything out on the table for you, and I think that’s what The Djinn did.
MJ: It’s a real slow-moving build, you know. The way we went about doing the score, it takes a long time, it grows with the movie, which is nice. It’s what keeps you on edge, it keeps it interesting. It’s not just jump scares out of nowhere, even though there are a few good ones.
It’s psychological as well, which is nice. It’s just kind of the claustrophobia of the whole thing and the fact that Dylan’s mute. It was an interesting story from the minute I laid eyes on the screener when I was in consideration for it.
1428 Elm: In a film like that one, it’s very evident that music plays a large role in amping up the suspense and the jump scares. There’s a very large portion of the film that has no dialogue, only background sounds and a little bit of voiceover. What are the challenges that come with creating music with sequences like that?
MJ: Well, music becomes…barring Dylan’s father, who makes a couple of appearances…music becomes kind of a leading role, that was kind of the understanding from the onset. We sat down to talk about how important it was going to be, and I think you’re very correct, the movie is carried by…it almost, dare I say…it’s almost weird, because it’s clearly not violent, but it plays as if it’s a violent film at times because he can’t talk. He does such a fantastic job.
1428 Elm: Oh, he’s great!
MJ: Yeah, Ezra is amazing, he’s got a bright future, just what he could do with his face and his reactions as a little kid! I think the hardest part for me with the music was; well, (directors) Justin and David, they know film like you wouldn’t believe.
Even film score, and the way they want it, so it’s interesting to see how we worked it all out because it’s like this long, dynamic feathering in of all the elements. It’s not like a Back to the Future action epic, orchestral score or something like that, but it was difficult because I came off of something like that earlier this year.
It was kind of an apocalypse comedy movie, which Back to the Future was totally the inspiration for that score. So you can imagine, coming from total chaos, like running, winding lines and going from that, this was an experiment in a total exercise in restraint.
Especially the opening sequences, we had three minutes in the opening scene, and we have to wait ‘til we get to that for the mom in the kitchen. It was like, really? Alright. But it works, that was what was cool about it. For me, that was the difficult part, to come in and really slowly turn on the gas and heat the thing up, and that was great, it was a challenge.
1428 Elm: Now, beyond strumming a little bit of guitar, I’m not really a musician, but it seemed like there was almost an 80s vibe to some of your music. It had that synthesizer feel to it.
MJ: Yeah, I don’t think even a little bit. I don’t think we’re trying to hide that from anybody. I fear sometimes we’re gonna get knocked around in reviews for being too Carpenter-esque.
1428 Elm: Oh, no, no. I’ve been a horror nerd for as long as I can remember, but Halloween was one of the first horror movies that really grabbed me. So I appreciate the homage.
MJ: That’s the best, I mean, there’s really nothing better than that theme. It still works too, even in the new Zombie one, they still use it, and it makes sense. It IS Michael Meyers.
1428 Elm: And going back to the whole newer horror thing, I have recently had the opportunity to interview some cinematographers, and they told me they enjoy filming horror because you don’t always have to deal in realism, you can branch off in a little more creative and surreal direction. Do you think that applies to scoring horror films as well?
MJ: Absolutely, and I think that with this film, they knew straight away that they wanted to make it period. They wanted to go back and pay homage to the retro. There’s no hiding that. What they did in Timecop1983, which is that Dutch artist who had a couple of tracks in the film, I was just like, ok, cool, I’m going to use these old Yamaha synths and things like that and these samples that are indicative of the 80s, I really just leaned into it.
Honestly, with the exception, of course, The Djinn’s kind of jump-scare moments, the last moments, when they’re fighting, I think there is a lot of surreality to it.
I mean, when we find out he’s in mourning, it takes a long time to figure out what’s really going on. So we’re really playing into this flashback, dream-like state, it seems like every day is the same, it doesn’t seem like he’s enjoying himself, there’s like Saran wrap on everything, I think everybody can sympathize with some level of mourning and grief. When you reflect back on those times, that is kind of like how he is. We play a lot on that too, his theme’s kind of lonely and out there, you know?
1428 Elm: With modern horror, grief and trauma seem to be themes that weave through that now, much more than they used to. It’s not just someone hunting down a bunch of teenagers with a knife. It’s become more realistically uncomfortable I guess.
MJ: Right, right, more dramatic. Drama and psychological thrillers have feathered their way in, which I think is good. I do respect some of the Saw franchise when it first came out, and things like that. I like stuff that’s smart too. I’m not judge about it, there are just certain things that we like more than other things. For me, I really do like the mind game kind of films.
1428 Elm: I love that, and I love when they fit emotion into horror. I call that heartfelt horror when it just hits you in the heart and you don’t expect it to.
MJ: Yeah, I would say The Djinn falls into that realm, especially when you get to the revelation, you know, in the third act or so. And, it’s kind of shocking and sad, like, “Wow, that’s what happened.” At the beginning of the story, it’s like, maybe it’s an apparition, you’re not too sure, because that’s kind of how it’s played.
Something’s haunting them, we do get that. But, we don’t really know what’s going on until we get into the apartment, and his father kind of hints at it. But we don’t really know what happened to the mom, or if that’s a ghost of her, or if it’s even her. Then it gets really weird from there.
1428 Elm: I didn’t review the film for our site, Maddy did that, and she loved it too, so I know it’s going to be successful. Before I let you go, tell me what you’re going to be doing next.
MJ: I’m working on a total shift of gears, a foreign film that is a period piece going back to the 1900s. Are you familiar with Montague Rhodes James? It’s based on a ghost story, it’s kind of a throwback to the 1900s, it’s an Italian indie film. I’m working on that currently, which is a blast.
It’s a total departure from anything I’ve done in a long time. It sort of calls back to the silent era, when there were organs playing in the theaters, we’re really going old school on this, which is fun, and challenging and fairly difficult, honestly. I just started on that, and other than that, there are a few other things in the pipeline potentially, but I can’t talk about them yet.
There’s a Netflix thing that I’m in talks with. We’ll see if that happens, it’s a thriller, so we’re finding out about that. I’m just kind of getting back to work after the whole crisis thing. We really got hammered, especially the lower indie world and the middle, trying to break into the mainstream…you know, they already have the top 20 guys for that, so you’re trying to navigate what happened last year. But, it’s slowly getting back.
But, the period piece is called Whistle and I’ll Come to You, and that’ll be done in probably a month or so. I know it’s a total departure from the stuff we’re talking about.
1428 Elm: No, it’s a ghost story, and that’s definitely in the realm of what I love, so I will look for it. Thank you so much for your time, and for talking to us about The Djinn.
MJ: Thank you for talking to me, I’m happy to talk about this. This is going to be good for all of us that were involved, people are pretty excited about it. It seems like so far, it’s been very warmly received by critics as well.
Are you interested in watching The Djinn when it releases? Tell us why or why not in the comments section.
The Djinn opens in select theaters and will be available to access on demand beginning Friday, May 14.